Podcast: The chicken or the egg? Tracing charging infrastructure expansion and mass EV adoption

Matt Nolan

Matt Nolan is the Global Product Strategy Manager, Power Electronics, eMobility. In this role, Matt is responsible for developing the strategy for inverters, on board chargers and DC converters, leveraging expertise from Eaton’s Electrical and Vehicle Groups for the development of electrified components and power management technology for automotive and commercial vehicles.

Matt joined Eaton in 2000 as an account manager in Tualatin, OR, and has held numerous positions of increasing scope over his 21-year career with the company. Prior to his roles within eMobility, Matt served as a product line manager. He has also held roles in sales and product management.

Matt holds a bachelor's degree in Business Management from the Linfield University in McMinnville, Oregon.

Fabrice Roudet

Based in Morges, Switzerland, Roudet is responsible for the strategic management of Eaton’s energy storage solutions and EV charging business for residential, commercial, industrial and grid-scale applications across Europe, the Middle East and Africa.

Prior to this role, Roudet was Product Line Manager. In that role he managed the energy storage product line including residential, commercial and industrial buildings, and grid-scale solutions for the energy storage market.

Roudet joined Eaton in 2011 after seven years of managing innovative projects within the corporate research and development division at Schneider Electric.

Roudet is a graduate of the Institut National Polytechnique de Grenoble, and also holds a PhD degree in Engineering.

SPEAKER: Welcome to Eaton's 10 in 10 podcast, where we focus on industry trends shaping the future of power management. In this series, our expert answers 10 questions about one of today's most talked-about industry topics in 10 minutes or less. From the energy transition to digital transformation and beyond, we explore trends and discuss strategies for delivering safer, more efficient, and reliable power. 

ANGELA SWANN: Hi, I'm Angela Swann, here with another Eaton10 in 10 podcast. I work as a policy communications manager in the EV charging infrastructure team at Eaton. And in the vehicle industry right now, it's all about going electric.

We know the world of transportation is evolving, and there are many elements at play when it comes to achieving mass consumer adoption of EVs. And one of the most important is the development of EV charging infrastructure. Today we're talking with Matt Nolan, global product strategy manager for eMobility, and Fabrice Roudet, head of energy storage and EV charging, about the challenges that impact mass EV adoption.

We've got 10 questions lined up and 10 minutes to answer them. So Matt, Fabrice, thanks for joining us. Let's get started. Matt, first of all, in your opinion, will the sale of electric vehicles drive the development of eMobility infrastructure or the network of charging stations drive EV volumes? 

MATT NOLAN: Angela, thanks for asking. I think in the long term, it's both. It's not an either/or situation, but we need both.

What we've seen happen though is, in the short term, we needed electric vehicles that were appealing to consumers, and they were able to address some of the challenges that they had with the different use cases, charging at home or dealing with a limited charging infrastructure. But as we move forward, we have to have both so that we can address a broader use of use cases and consumer wants and needs.

ANGELA SWANN: Fabrice, same question to you, chicken or egg?

FABRICE ROUDET: Same answer as Matt, but I would say that initially early adopters are very often home owners. So they are first looking for an EV, and they can easily install an EV charger. When the market is growing and the new buyers of electric vehicles are living in block of apartments and they can't have their own charger at home, they need an eMobility infrastructure. So chicken or egg, it evolves over time. 

ANGELA SWANN: OK. So back to Matt, in your experience, what are some of the top reasons that people choose, well, not to buy an EV today? 

MATT NOLAN: I think there's a variety of different reasons that people are choosing not to buy EVs or have concerns about purchasing their first EV, whether it's charge time and how long it takes to recharge the vehicle, the actual cost of the vehicle, the availability of charging infrastructure-- most consumers aren't aware of the extensive charging structure that exists-- and then concerns over range of the vehicle and how does the vehicle range impact the ability of the consumer or the operator to meet the needs of how they're going to use that vehicle. 

ANGELA SWANN: Right, so there's a lot to think about. Fabrice, how do you see EV charging evolving to meet the challenges that Matt talked about?

FABRICE ROUDET: I think that the more EV owners we have, the more opportunities building owners and ChargePoint operators will have to monetize installation of EV Chargers. So the market growing, it creates opportunity, and we'll see more and more EV Chargers in all locations. And this will address the range anxiety because we'll be able to move to, let's say, a centralized approach where people are going to gas station to refuel, to an approach where you can charge your car everywhere, as chargers will be everywhere electricity is available. 

ANGELA SWANN: OK, and looking ahead, Matt, what do you think today's EV battery ranges look like compared to well, what there will be five years from now?

MATT NOLAN: I think over the next five years, we're going to see a significant increase in range of vehicles. Today most of the vehicles have a range of less than 400 kilometers, or 250 miles. I think only 13% of the vehicles produced today have a range of more than 400 kilometers.

But we're seeing that battery size is increasing. Looking forward even over the next couple of years, between now and the end of 2022, there's over 60 new electric vehicles scheduled to be introduced, and of those, over 50% of them have a range of more than 400 kilometers. So as we move forward, we're expecting to see range increase from the current 300 to 400 kilometers to in the 400 to 600 kilometers range, where a vehicle could travel significant distances before it needs to be recharged. 

ANGELA SWANN: Fabrice, thinking about the present, can you quickly explain the different charging types and tell us which ones are used most widely around the world? 

FABRICE ROUDET: So being specific and focusing on full electric vehicle and passenger cars, one can see today that all cars are capable of being charged with an AC charger or a DC charger. AC Chargers are known to be slower than DC Chargers, so we see people using AC chargers for day-to-day commute, for charging at home, charging at work, or for top-up charging, while DC Chargers are more used for long distance or longer trips, when you have to charge on the highway and where you cannot afford to wait for hours. So it's a combination of the two with, in percentage, a higher share for AC Chargers. 

ANGELA SWANN: Right, OK. And, Matt, how does the connector compatibility align with the various types of EVs on the road?

MATT NOLAN: The industry has been working really hard to standardize connectors. And today, Fabrice talked about a variety of AC charging and DC charging structures, and the vehicles are able to accept a single connector for both. We're seeing that there have been a variety of different standards for what the actual connector is, which has made it challenging for people to charge vehicles of different types, depending upon the charging connector that's used on that vehicle.

Tesla uses a proprietary connector. Early on, there were multiple styles of connectors. But we're seeing it standardize on a single connector type, which allows the operator to have a greater level of certainty that they can charge when they get to a charging station. And the vehicle will automatically detect whether it's being charged from an AC source or a DC source and charge appropriately. 

ANGELA SWANN: OK, so, Fabrice, thinking about the grid now, there have been some concerns about grid stability. Does the grid, both at a macro and micro level, have the power necessary to support charging stations? And how reliable are the charging stations?

FABRICE ROUDET: Yeah, so it depends from one country to another, but studies demonstrated that the extra energy needed to charge electric vehicle will be somewhere in the range of 10% to 15%. This is something that the grid can manage. 

But the issue is that EV chargers are not going to be spread geographically, and charging stations will not be spread equally during the day. So it may well happen that, in some locations and at specific times, the overload on the grid is 30% to 40% compared to today. In that case, there are already solutions existing, like energy storage, energy management software in order to store energy produced at a time there was no need and to use it at the time of peaks. So yes, there will be challenges, but solutions exist and are already available.

ANGELA SWANN: OK, and thinking about regulations, now back over to you, Matt, how do regulations impact sales of EVs and the development of the charging infrastructure?

MATT NOLAN: So we see a variety of different legislative activities pushing growth and adoption of electric vehicles. Whether it's the green deal in Europe or the infrastructure spending in the United States, there's a lot of momentum helping facilitate the adoption of electric vehicles. And it's driven through a mix of regulation and incentives, whether it's emissions regulations, regulating CO2 levels, or investment in charging infrastructure, and also purchasing incentives of electric vehicles.

And then we're seeing further regulation help accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles with things like zero emission zones that are helping drive regional and national zero emissions and electric vehicle adoption. And we're seeing the results of some of that. Last year in Europe, there was 140% growth of electric vehicles. We expect to continue to see manufacturers promoting electric vehicles heavily, and many are starting to announce the phase out of internal combustion engines in the future as well. 

ANGELA SWANN: Right, and finally, over to Fabrice, can you share some insights on what the electrified future looks like? When do you think we're going to be able to see charging stations everywhere we park? Do you do you think that will be 10 years, 20 years out? 

FABRICE ROUDET: It will probably depend from one country to another, but I do personally believe that we will be able to charge everywhere in 10 years. Not all parking spaces will be equipped with EV chargers, but for sure, you'll have EV chargers in every public building. 

You'll have EV Chargers most likely at work for companies to ensure their employees can charge during their work hours. And I would say, in general, you'll be able to charge your car wherever you go a bit, like you can do today with your smartphone, as long as you bring your charger. So we can easily imagine that, in 10 years, it will be possible to charge an EV even when visiting friends because everyone will be equipped with an EV charger at home. 

ANGELA SWANN: Big changes, and it sounds exciting. Thank you very much. Matt, Fabrice, thank you so much for your time today. It's interesting to hear how the adoption of electric vehicles is increasing in momentum, and it's exciting to follow along with this transition. 

So if you'd like to learn more about how we're enabling vehicle electrification, visit us at eaton.com/emobility, and download our recently commissioned IHS report on eMobility expansion.